#19 Lee Pepper — Breaking Stigma, Ethical Marketing, & Lessons from 10,000 Recovery Calls

Lee Pepper has spent nearly two decades helping behavioral health organizations reach more people, grow responsibly, and better understand what individuals and families experience when they make the difficult first call for help.

A military veteran, author, marketing strategist, four-time Ironman, and longtime friend of the recovery community, Lee brings a unique perspective shaped by leadership, service, data, and thousands of conversations about addiction and treatment.

After joining Foundations Recovery Network as its first Chief Information Officer in 2008, Lee helped the organization achieve extraordinary growth while building a marketing approach rooted in ethics, transparency, and measurable impact. Along the way, he listened to more than 10,000 calls from people seeking treatment—and discovered that many organizations don’t have a marketing problem. They have a listening problem.

Lee explains why the first question a caller asks—“How much does treatment cost?” or “Where are you located?”—is rarely the question they truly need answered. Behind that question may be years of pain, fear, uncertainty, and the courage required to finally pick up the phone.

In this wide-ranging conversation, Lee and Jonny explore the stigma surrounding addiction, the importance of approaching recovery without judgment, ethical storytelling, the hidden practices that can mislead families searching online for treatment, and why helping someone find the right care matters—even when it is not your organization.

Lee also shares lessons from serving in the military, working for Ross Perot, completing four Ironman triathlons, mentoring veterans, and writing his book, Never Outmatched: Using Military Tactics to Master the Art of Business and Marketing.

You’ll Hear:

• What Lee learned about addiction by attending open recovery meetings
• Why people outside the recovery community can mistakenly view addiction as simply a series of bad decisions
• How listening to more than 10,000 treatment calls changed Lee’s understanding of the first call for help
• Why asking “How much does treatment cost?” may be a caller’s way of saying, “I don’t know what else to ask”
• Why Lee says, “If you’re talking, you’re selling. If you’re listening, you’re caring.”
• The common training mistakes treatment centers make when answering calls from patients and families
• Why many perceived marketing problems are actually problems with how calls are handled
• How Foundations Recovery Network grew while using data to make smarter marketing decisions
• Why helping someone find appropriate treatment is a win—even when they are not admitted to your program
• How unethical online advertising can mislead families searching for trusted treatment providers
• Why Lee believes “anonymity is not secrecy”
• How Betty Ford inspired the creation of Heroes in Recovery and helped change the public conversation around addiction
• Why ethical standards are essential when marketing addiction treatment
• How military concepts such as force multiplication and commander’s intent can strengthen organizations
• What Lee learned about leadership while working with Ross Perot
• How Veterans Treatment Court helps veterans access treatment, purpose, community, and support
• Why completing four Ironman triathlons reinforced Lee’s belief in discipline and incremental growth
• What recovery and endurance training have in common
• Why meaningful change can begin with something as small as reaching the next mailbox
• How the principles in Never Outmatched apply beyond marketing and military service

Why Listen:

• To better understand the courage it can take to make the first call for addiction treatment
• To learn why listening without judgment is essential when supporting people affected by addiction
• To discover what treatment providers often misunderstand about patients and families seeking help
• To understand how ethical marketing can connect people with care without exploiting their vulnerability
• To learn why growth and business success should never come at the expense of patient care
• To hear practical leadership lessons from Lee’s experiences in the military, behavioral healthcare, and working with Ross Perot
• To understand how small, consistent actions can create lasting change in recovery, health, leadership, and life
• To be reminded that treatment is not a quick fix—recovery is a lifelong process of building a stronger foundation

To learn more about Lee Pepper and his book, Never Outmatched: Using Military Tactics to Master the Art of Business and Marketing, visit leepepper.com.

If you or someone you love is struggling, help is available.

To learn more about National Addiction Specialists and the Breaking Down Addiction podcast, visit nationaladdictionspecialists.com.